Adam Conover
DISCLAIMER: We do not represent SAG/AFTRA or the WGA in any form. The following are individual opinions only. Please see the SAG/AFTRA or WGA websites for current information on the strikes. Read our #UnionStrong Statement here.
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Interview by Tiffanie Woods
Photography by Sela Shiloni
Styling by Karolina Frechowicz
Grooming by Tammy Yi @ Exclusive Artists
It’s incredibly likely that you’ve seen videos of Adam Conover across your social media Explore pages speaking the truth about capitalism and the importance of unions from the WGA and SAG-AFTRA picket lines.
“I literally would make a video on the picket line about the writer's strike and it would get 10 million views across TikTok, Instagram, and Twitter.” Conover shares when I ask him about the importance of social media during this historic summer of strikes and labor movements. Its impact in building public support amongst a slew of smear campaigns and misinformation from the studios can’t be overstated.
At the time of our interview with Conover, known for his comedy series Adam Ruins Everything and voice work on hits like Bojack Horseman, negotiations between SAG-AFTRA and the AMPTP were suspended. Given his experience as a member of both the WGA and SAG-AFTRA unions and a board and negotiating committee member responsible for the historic WGA contract, we wanted to get his take on the state of the strike and growing labor movement building across the country.
Conover goes deep on what it looks like to be a member of the WGA negotiating committee, giving a peek behind the curtain of negotiations, his thoughts on the AMPTP’s current stance during SAG-AFTRA negotiations, and any advice for his fellow union members.
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How has the journey from Adam Ruins Everything to where you are now in your career been like for you?
You know, maybe Adam Ruins Everything is really what brought me to this moment.
When I first created the show we were a non Writers Guild show our first year, and in the second year, I was able to convince the network to flip the show and allow us to join the Writers Guild. That was when I joined the union - by flipping the show.
Suddenly I had an incredible health insurance plan, I was receiving residuals for my work and so was every other writer on the show. Everyone got paid far more than they were being paid before, people were having money put into a pension plan, and I really felt the benefits directly.
In my next show The G Word for Netflix, I knew it would never have been covered by the Writers Guild if writers of the past hadn't gone on strike in 2007. I was not a guild member, and I wasn't a working comedy writer, I was just doing open mics and sketch comedy in basements in New York. But that strike was a big moment and I knew that it was about getting coverage on the internet. And so if those writers hadn't gone on strike, that show that I did for Netflix would have been non-union and I wouldn't have had health insurance.
Also, when I started doing the show for Netflix I was told by the producers because we are on Netflix and we're making a comedy variety show; we don't have a minimum amount that we have to pay the writers, we don't have a minimum number of weeks they have to work, they don't have residuals.
We didn't have any of the benefits that we had for doing the same work on cable. So I was asking writers, writers I worked with before to come with me from my old show on the smallest basic cable channel on television to the largest streamer in the world, where suddenly ten times as many people would be able to watch what I was doing, and yet I was asking them to take a step backward in their compensation and their protections and all those other important things.
So I knew that we needed to win those provisions for streaming. And when it came down to going on strike when I was on the negotiating committee when we made that vote on whether or not we were going to call the strike I thought, well, the only reason I have any of these benefits at all is because the writers of the past went on strike for me. And if I need to go on strike now to win those same benefits for my fellow workers and workers that come after me, then it's my turn because I felt the benefits so much of what a union won for me.
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Speaking of this moment, how do you think the winning of the WGA contract re-energized the continued SAG strike?
The way that the unions are feeding off of each other right now is so powerful. When the Writers Guild went on strike in 2007 it was the only union at the time that was going on strike at all. All the other unions were like, what the hell are you doing here? But now things are so bad in Hollywood and in the economy everywhere, for everybody, there's a huge surge of interest in support for labor because workers know they're getting screwed.
So when the Writers Guild went on strike, SAG-AFTRA of which I'm also a member, those actors started saying wow writers are fighting for their rights, “We want to fight too, we want to fight too!” And you could see the more actors that showed up to our picket lines the tougher the SAG-AFTRA negotiating team got. They started responding to their members. Then when they called the strike authorization vote, they got a higher number than we did in the Writers Guild! When they called the strike, suddenly everything changed, because now there were two unions on strike asking for some of the same issues. And that meant the companies could not get out of this without dealing with those issues.
The more workers are on strike together the more powerful the strike is. Now that the Writers Guild has a deal we are still showing up on the SAG-AFTRA picket line to make sure they have the support that they need.
You're also starting to see it in other unions. On our picket lines, we had crew members, teamsters, IATSE members, and non-union workers. I met with at least half a dozen different groups of workers who are non-union and are trying to start a union. Production assistants, music supervisors, post-producing, post supervisors, and choreographers. All these people are workers who don't have a union in the entertainment industry and they're all fighting for one. One of the reasons they are is because they are seeing proof positive, that when workers stand up and fight together we actually win. So it's a really huge moment in Hollywood labor right now.
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As a negotiating Committee Member for the WGA contract, what are your thoughts on how the AMPTP is handling the SAG-AFTRA negotiations in the strike?
I'm surprised they're trying to do the same things all over again. They are trying to walk away from the table and then act as though the union is divided, spread rumors that actors want talks to end, etc. That didn't work on the writers because the writers were actually united. It's not gonna work on the actors because the actors are actually united. They're actually all working together and their negotiating committee is really strong. The companies I guess need to learn the same lesson again that they're not gonna be able to get our labor until they actually make a fair deal. That's the only way out of this.
Just yesterday October 19th the SAG-AFTRA negotiating committee released a statement after the AMPTP suspended negotiations calling them “greedy” for their 1% revenue subscription proposal which they lowered from 2%, what are your thoughts on this in terms of its effects on the momentum of the strike?
I think all the momentum is on SAG-AFTRA’s side. The membership has made it very clear they're not going to go back and work for a bad deal. The companies need to get back to work more than SAG-AFTRA members need to take a bad deal.
Ted Sarandos doesn't get any more Stranger Things until he makes a deal. David Zaslav doesn't get to pay back any of his monster debt until he makes a deal. Bob Iger's not gonna be able to release Dare Devil 3, which has been pushed back again until they make a deal. And they can do that whenever they want.
The AMPTP companies walked away from the table and until they get back, they're gonna get any of what they need.
The actors have made it very clear that they're gonna stay on the picket line until everyone's issues are taken care of.
A major holding point for SAG-AFTRA is the AI protections for performers which the AMPTP is against. What are the stakes when it comes to these AI protections in your opinion having that be a part of the WGA contract as well?
I don't like to use the term AI because it's really a marketing term that means something completely different from whatever you're talking about. It's designed to make you think that the technology is inevitable and you have to do what everybody says.
The fact is that technology doesn't matter. It's what the companies intend to use the technology to do, to hurt the workers. In this case, the companies have been very clear that what they want to do is absorb actors' likenesses and performances and use it in the future without compensating that actor.
Their most recent proposals hand wave at some protections but really they use them to abuse actors who don't have very much leverage, people at the beginning of their contract.
For instance, remember the Star Wars sequels? They used all these actors who were not previously famous. Kelly Marie Tram and John Boyega. Imagine you're Kelly Marie Tran or John Boyega. You're so excited to get this job and they say hey, we're just gonna scan you in and then we can use your performance for the life of the franchise. Not for the movie, but over the life of the franchise. We never need to pay you again or ask your permission ever again. mean John Boyega is now a part of Star Wars lore, so they could use his performance in perpetuity. They could be using it 40 years from now and not compensating him. So that's that is the sort of protection we're fighting for.
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Going back to you being a member of the WGA negotiating committee, Can you give us a peek behind the curtain on what that process looks like?
Absolutely. It's really interesting. First of all, I'm a board member and I'm on the negotiating committee, so I'm a really really active member of leadership. Our main job is to figure out what our members need and then fight for it as hard as we can in the room as their representatives.
All year long, 365 24/7 The Writers Guild staff is researching the business, researching how writers are doing. In addition to that, every time we have an MBA (Minimum Basic Agreement) negotiation, which we have every three years, we send out a survey to every single member asking how are they able to make a living, how much money are they making if they want to share that, and what are the pressures on them. Then we; the board and the members of the negotiating committee read every single one of those surveys. Literally every single one we read.
I read every one from the comedy variety which are the kind of writers I represent, late-night writers Etc. I read every single one.
How many are that?
I mean we're getting thousands of them. I read all the ones for my work area because that's my area of specialty. I also know board members who read literally every single one. From screenwriters to television writers, because you want to get that picture.
That’s dedication.
Then we put together a preliminary package of proposals. That's the job of the negotiating committee. We get together and we present a laundry list kitchen sink of everything we could possibly do. Then we say, okay, let's make a plan - we're gonna fight for this, that, and that, and then we go before the membership and we present that to them and that this is our agenda.
Then we have these big meetings at Union hotels in LA and we present it to them. Then we sit there and we listen to what they say. Every single member who comes to the mic we sit and we listen to them from beginning to end and we take their feedback into account and adjust our proposals.
When it came time to finally actually negotiate and go into the room, we went to the AMPTP offices in Sherman Oaks. This is what most people want to know. They want to know. What is it like inside the room?
Exactly.
So we have a caucus room we sit in that's the Writers Guild room in their headquarters. We've got a noise machine going so no one can overhear us talk to deliberate. Then once a day or so we get a little doorbell *ding dong* and it's time to go into the big room which is the negotiating room, where we sit across from the company lawyers. And it’s all of us that go in there, it's not just our negotiators and our lawyers on our side, it’s also us the members. We want them to see us. Here we are. And we present our proposals.
That part is very formal. None of us speak unless it's been predetermined we will. It's a little bit like foreign policy.
We present our proposals. They present their proposals in exactly the same level of formality and then we return to our caucus room to discuss them and discuss our next moves, and it kind of works back and forth like that. There's a lot of downtime, waiting to get their latest counteroffer or for us to present our offer.
It was also a really fascinating process because we got to see firsthand what the face of capitalism looks like.
And the thing is there's no shouting and yelling. These are just people who have been told by their bosses you can only give so much. And we say, well we actually need more than that because you've done all these things that have taken money away from us and they say well we can't offer you more than that because we're not allowed to. And we say, okay, well, we're gonna go on strike, and they say well we can't offer you anymore. And then we call the strike.
Because the whole point is to break out of that box, and to call the manager - to talk to the CEO who can actually make the decision. That is the point in which the strike actually ended when we actually got the CEOs at the table and in the room.
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As a member of both unions is there anything you’d like to leave readers with that are members of the unions or just the general public?
I'll say what's been really impactful about this experience for me is realizing how much power I, and the other workers alongside me have. We were able to, through our collective solidarity, force these companies to give us things they said they would never give us in a million years, to give us a fair deal.
That is power that every single worker in our society has no matter what you do for a living.
No matter what you do for a living, you stand between a boss and their next dollar. If you say I'm not gonna let you have that next dollar and say that with your coworkers together, you can get them to do what you want. It’s not every single time, but it works more often than it fails.
That's something that I've realized that I'm now proselytizing about. I want everybody to know that. I want nurses to know that. I want teachers to know that I want truck drivers to know that. I want waiters to know that. I want literally every Amazon worker.
I want every single person in our society to know you have power over your employer because they need you, and if you stand up and use it together with your coworkers, it’s not gonna be easy, but it can win and that is the most important message.
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