Jolene Purdy & Yoko Okumura
I want an industry where, when working on a movie or TV show, directors, writers, and crew don’t have to completely shut down the rest of their lives.
Photography by Daniel J Kim
Styling by Erica Holloway
Makeup by Sherri Celis
Hair by Brandy Marlin
Photo Assisting by Mikey Santillan
Jolene: I grew up in LA and I was doing musical theater. I thought it was like the end all, be all, the only art form that really matters. Until I had my first on-camera audition. I got to see the same craft in a different medium, and the changes that go along with that. It was very fun. Also, the paycheck's better generally, so I kind of opened my horizons to TV and film. I graduated high school and started singing at Disneyland, which I loved. Then I had my first audition for a pilot and I booked it, so my firsts are great and then I have to suck it up for the rest of it.
Yoko: Your hits came early.
For me, I was always into arts and crafts, making sculpy and drawing. Film was something that wasn't easily accessible when you're growing up in the early nineties, and you're living in Minneapolis and you're an immigrant child. I went to a Waldorf school where every day, we’re knitting and singing and doing circus and painting and carving butter knives. But media was one thing they actively discouraged us from engaging in. They encouraged parents not to let their kids watch TV, especially when they're younger. I guess my loving video cameras was weirdly a form of rebellion within the context of that school. But I loved cameras. I loved documenting my friends. That's where the love of the machine started. And I just pursued the love of that machine throughout my life.
I was in the camera department for years during my undergrad at Cal Arts. But it wasn't really until I went to grad school at AFI that I thought, oh, I could actually be a paid director who makes TV and film.
Jolene: Wow. See, I feel like you're a real artist because you chased after it, you educated yourself, you fought for it. You discovered what it was about, the craft, not just camera, but directing. You fought for it. I feel like I've just been like, well, let's see what happens.
Yoko: Well, I will debate you on the legitimacy of the paradigm of even thinking of real vs fake artists. It doesn't matter how you started, where you started. If art is what you do, you're an artist. I think you're coming from a place of, like, artists have to suffer to get there. You don't have to apologize for being a superstar from the beginning and not suffering.
Jolene: I did six weeks in New York, I didn't suffer, exactly. Maybe kind of a little bit because it was winter in New York, but I went there just to go to open calls because I wanted to see if I loved what I was doing. I was like, let me go to New York where I know no one. Start at the bottom, suffer for my craft, and see if I still love it.
Yoko: You put yourself through the suffer ringer. You built yourself an environment to suffer and to test yourself.
Jolene: Yeah. And you know what? I loved it.
Yoko: I’ll say that the panic used to be a $500 paycheck every other week trying to survive. Versus now, I get to have more time in between when I panic about money. Because what hasn't changed from back then to now is I'm still a freelancer, right? I've pretty much only had one full-time job my whole life and I've also done random service industry jobs in sushi restaurants but otherwise, I've just been a freelancer. I think this industry still has an equity issue in that it's a very expensive art form to pursue. It's very expensive to build your own self-funded portfolio and to build your voice and your samples. The barrier to entry is very high. Also to live in LA and survive here and continue to stay in the game. What I've definitely learned at this point in my career is that if you stay in the game, things will happen. What you have to do is find a way to not quit.
I'm pre-WGA and I am DGA, so I've been observing the strike from that point of view. I can only hope and assume that the writers getting a good deal will only help the actors. I think there's a different fight in both of the strikes because the actors have this huge issue around their likeness and AI that is different from the negotiations that writers had to make with the studios about AI. I think the general zeitgeist of whose side we're all on is very clear. Not we as in “the industry,” but the global community sees who are the villains and who are the good guys in this particular fight. It's really great to also see that the WGA writers who are technically back are still on the picket lines with the SAG. I think there's a labor movement beyond just our industry right now. So many different industries are striking right now.
Jolene: I think it's a way for SAG to ease into the conversation because we know what they've met there, with the writers. But I feel like actors always get screwed somehow or another because so many people want to be actors even for no money. It's more for fame. There's not as much fame around writing because it's not a visual medium.
Yoko: You’re saying actors are more willing to seek fame for themselves so there are always more people willing to do work for less pay?
Jolene: Absolutely. Back in 2000 or so, I was way older than 16 playing a 16-year-old. I went from Disney to Nickelodeon. I had a recurring role on a Disney show, and then I went to a series regular on Nickelodeon. I kind of made them fight for each other. Who's going to take me? Who's going to give me the most money? In talking with reps and other actors that have been through this, between Nickelodeon and Disney specifically, Disney knows that they're making stars, so they don't have to pay actors and actors will do it.
Yoko: That's why they put Disneyland tickets into their contracts, because those are the benefits that they can add in lieu of actual high pay.
Jolene: Right, but at this point, it costs so much to get into Disneyland.
Yoko: So maybe it's worth it.
Jolene: But the discrepancy in money was like twice as much at Nickelodeon.
Yoko: Wow.
Jolene: There is something to “actors will work for food.” You've heard that thing. It's not that far off. If you give us praise, we will be there.
Yoko: I can see your theory suggesting that actors might not fight as hard for the financial aspects, but independent of income, there are a lot of rights issues being talked about now in that context, like with AI. What about for that?
Jolene: Yeah, and I think the big hot topic is background actors getting paid a day rate to be scanned and used in perpetuity.
I think that they'll do the best job that they can negotiating that. But when it comes down to it, I don't see a way where they're going to get what they want, what background artists deserve.
Yoko: I feel very different. I feel like that's one of the things that should be a no-brainer. I think it's preposterous to just be like, “I own your image in perpetuity to use in any movie forever.” As a director, I think we still really need extras, physical, live people on set. With that need still very real, I just think it's really insane to deny them that right.
Jolene: Do you remember when they pre-sold Twilight tickets and they made billions of dollars before making the film, and the executives decided, “Well, do we even need to make it really good? All of these people already paid their money for the movie.”
Yoko: What do you mean pre-sold it?
Jolene: They were pre-selling tickets. It was like a trajectory. I forget the article that I read, but they skimped on the special effects budget because they knew that they were going to make this money already.
Yoko: That sucks.
Jolene: Yes, we'll get something. But we won't get the max. I really think they should prioritize protecting background actors more. People above the line have attorneys, agents, and managers scrutinizing every detail. I already have stipulations in my contract, like you can’t have someone else do my ADR. Or like having hand double approval for specific scenes, even though anyone could be my hand, and there are many prettier hands out there. But in my contract, that protects me.
Yoko: Wait, does SAG already have rules regarding this? Are your agents negotiating this or are these your existing rights through SAG by default?
Jolene: I don't know the answer. I think it's an industry standard, but it is our reps’ job to make sure that that language is in there.
Yoko: Your point is that, at least you have these professionals, you can afford their specialized skills to protect your rights. Extras have virtually no protection. So, you’re saying this is an important point, but you're pessimistic about whether it will be strongly negotiated.
Jolene: Yes, and it's also the trickle-down effect if they use AI for background actors.
Yoko: Right. It's a slippery slope. If they can scan somebody, eventually they'll be able to scan anybody.
Jolene: Exactly. And if they don't have actual background actors, like they do in some scenes and bigger budget movies, they won't have to provide food, wardrobe, pay meal penalties, or overtime. It will save them a lot of money but negatively impact vendors. They won't need tents, costuming, catering, or teamsters for transporting equipment. We don't know for sure; that's the issue.
Yoko: That's why I think there needs to be a hard line.
Jolene: Yes, because we don't know. And we're still dealing with the fallout from streaming.
Yoko: I'm optimistic that the writers getting a good deal will only make it a little easier for actors to get a better deal than they may have. The fight is a hard fight. And you're acknowledging how hard it is. But I think the writer stuff was hard too. They got a lot of things that a lot of people did not think they would. Like the writers’ rooms having minimums, a lot of people thought there’d be no way they were going to get that. But in the end they got the right to have a minimum amount of writers in a room.
Jolene: Yeah, and I would love to be wrong.
Yoko: If I could wave a magic wand — and, this isn't a realistic hope for the future, this is me waving a magic wand outside of what is realistic — I’d want an industry where, when working on a movie or TV show, directors, writers, and crew don’t have to completely shut down the rest of their lives. I hope for an industry where we don’t have this expectation that our sleep patterns, health, exercise routines, and nutrition have to go down the drain for a few months. I've normalized this in my mind – that I’m going get fucked up physically and mentally for a while, but we're going to do it for the love of the art. It doesn't have to be this way.
Jolene: I was thinking that too, I hope that by providing a better financial situation, there's a better work-life balance. I feel like society is too self-focused right now, and if we shifted our focus as a whole in our community, there would be an opportunity for better work-life balance and caring for others.
Yoko: Right now, the individuals who are in our position as laborers, there's a lot of self-sacrifice. We as individuals are expected to compensate for the lack of protective infrastructure for us. I go home after a 12-hour day of set and prepare the next day's shot list instead of getting that extra hour of sleep or being able to prepare a meal for myself. I'm taking on the responsibility of sacrificing for the lack of extra time given to me during a work day to do everything I want to do for the job. And that's culturally expected of me as a director. I would like to live in a world where I'm not expected to self-sacrifice in order to make sure that our work is good.
Jolene: Yeah, I get it, that would be the dream. An eight-hour shooting day. What would that be like?
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